Diferenças entre edições de "Religion"

Fonte: Futuro Da Humanidade
 
(Há 139 revisões intermédias de 3 utilizadores que não estão a ser apresentadas)
Linha 1: Linha 1:
 
[[Category:Meier Encyclopedia]]
 
[[Category:Meier Encyclopedia]]
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Religion is only a primitive machination by Man to command, suppress and exploit others, to which only life forms that are weak in their consciousness succumb.
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{{Nonfigupublication}}
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<br>
  
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When Man indulges in his religions, i.e. malevolent, erroneous doctrines, his consciousness wastes away more and more and ultimately leads to a bottomless abyss.
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“Truly, it is not right to forbid opinion holders and religious believers, or believers in god, places in which they, individually or in groups can retreat or get together for the purpose of exchanging opinions, or for the religious reflection, because that does not correspond to freedom of opinion and freedom of belief. A different way of reflecting, striving and acting, which is directed against such places and their emblems, represents sheer sectarian and fanatical racism against religion and belief, as well as hatred of those who believe differently, and that is absolutely unacceptable in every form…”
  
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''‘Billy’ Eduard Albert Meier<br>
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23rd January – 7th June 2009
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 +
<small><small>Source: [http://au.figu.org/god_delusion.html au.figu.org/god_delusion.html], see [[God-delusion and God-delusion Insanity]] - ''“not right to forbid” -not right to participate''</small></small>
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<br><br>
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__TOC__
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<br>
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==What are five important aspects regarding Earth religions?==
 +
<small>Source: [[Contact Report 031]]</small>
 +
----
 +
# Religion is only a primitive machination by Man to command, suppress and exploit others, to which only life forms that are weak in their consciousness succumb.
 +
# When Man indulges in his religions, i.e. malevolent, erroneous doctrines, his consciousness wastes away more and more and ultimately leads to a bottomless abyss.<ref>[[Contact Report 1]], lines 57 and 45 respectively.</ref>
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# Earth is the only planet within the [[Milky Way]] galaxy that has religions of our form. Our religions control people’s lives and the welfare of the whole planet retarding our world by thousands of years in spiritual development.<ref>[[Contact Report 31]]</ref>
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# Every aspect of spiritual evolution is blocked by these religions, making any genuine progress impossible.<ref>[[Contact Report 31]]</ref>
 +
# Our religions still contain some real worth, but this becomes so overshadowed that only a few people are able to see any effective truth in them.<ref>[[Contact Report 31]]</ref>
 +
 +
 +
(FOM Note: In United Kingdom (and other countries) it's a criminal offence were someone to attack you physically or verbally because of your religion or belief, or for that matter because of your lack of religion e.g. Atheism. Someone is also committing a criminal offence if they 'stir up' hatred of a particular religious group. This doesn't mean you can't still talk about it honestly and openly, just keep the talk amongst the right company, know when to close your mouth, don't let the conversation spill over into the street, sort of thing. See references to '''Silent revolution of truth''' and '''Quiet revolution of truth''')
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<br><br>
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==FIGU Forum, Questions Answered by Billy==
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<small>Source: [http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/12/1871.html?1406318762 forum.figu.org: Your Questions to Billy Meier - Answered (External)]</small>
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----
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===Why have we not yet destroyed ourselves like other star systems have done so because of religion?===
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From the FIGU Forum (Questions Answered by Billy):
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{| class="wikitable" style="float:right; margin-left: 20px;"
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|-
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| <small>''Cambridge Dictionary; British English: '''Religiosity'''</small><br>
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:<small><small></small></small>
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:<small><small>the '''quality''' of '''being very''' or '''too religious'''.</small></small>
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:<small><small>'''reminding''' of '''religious behaviour, often''' in a way that is '''annoying'''.</small></small>
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::<small><small>''religiose rhymes with morose''.</small></small>
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|}
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<blockquote>[[Semjase]] said that the damage from the Christian religion had spread to other systems and galaxies and even caused their destruction. How is this possible when, as crazy as things are here, we haven't yet destroyed our own world over this, at least not to the extent she describes?<br />
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<br />
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'''ANSWER:''' Hi Michael,<br />
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<br />
 +
The other ones had more sophisticated weapons and technology to destroy themselves. We are still bound to our planet (luckily, in this respect). We are still in our baby shoes compared to them (in technical aspects).<ref>http://forum.figu.org/cgi-bin/us/discus.cgi?pg=next&topic=12&page=2685</ref></blockquote>
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<br><br>
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==Religion in the Contact Reports==
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<small>Source: [[Contact Reports]]</small>
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===Contact Report 253 ''(Excerpt)''===
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<small>Source: [[Contact Report 253]]</small>
 +
----
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{| style="text-align:justify;"
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|+
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| {{FOMTS2}}
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|-
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| <br>'''Florena:'''
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| <br>'''Florena:'''
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|- style="vertical-align:top;"
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| 41. Our investigations of the last two weeks however has clearly resulted in the fact that the alleged representative of God, believes neither in the existence of a God above himself, nor in the religious insanity that he preaches.
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| 41. Unsere Abklärungen der letzten zwei Wochen haben aber ganz eindeutig ergeben, dass der angebliche Gottesstellvertreter weder an die Existenz eines Gottes über ihm selbst glaubt noch an all den religiösen Unsinn, den er predigt.
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|-
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| 42. This man believes only in himself, as did also many of the previous Popes, as we likewise endeavoured to clear up for ourselves through travels into the past to the places of the respective events.
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| 42. Dieser Mann glaubt nur an sich selbst, wie das auch viele der früheren Päpste taten, wie wir uns bemühten ebenfalls abzuklären durch Reisen in die Vergangenheit an die Orte des jeweiligen Geschehens.
 +
|-
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| 43. It proved to be about them, that a certain small number of only precisely 36 Popes believed in a God above them, whereas all others only considered it for its post and position of power for themselves.
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| 43. Es erwies sich dabei, dass eine gewisse kleinere Anzahl von nur gerade 36 Päpsten an einen Gott über ihnen glaubten, während alle andern nur auf sich selbst, auf ihr Amt und auf ihre Machtposition bedacht waren.
 +
|-
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| 44. Quite a few among them in fact completely rejected the Christian faith, which they outwardly, of course, knew to conceal.
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| 44. Etliche unter ihnen lehnten den christlichen Glauben sogar vollkommen ab, was sie nach aussen hin natürlich zu verheimlichen wussten.
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|-
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| <br>'''Billy:'''
 +
| <br>'''Billy:'''
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|- style="vertical-align:top;"
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| Aha, then therefore I was correct with my suspicion.
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| Aha, dann hatte ich mit meiner Vermutung also recht.
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|}
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<br><br>
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(FOM Note: Also see [[God-delusion and God-delusion Insanity]], whereby the genuine delusion symptoms are much less prevalent than some have traditionally thought, at least among the Popes themselves, with just 13.64% of all the Popes over 1,965 years suffering from actual delusion)
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<br><br>
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===Contact Report 39 ''(Excerpt)''===
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<small>Source: [[Contact Report 039]]</small>
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----
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{| style="text-align:justify;"
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|+
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| {{FOMTS2}}
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|-
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| <br>'''Semjase:'''
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| <br>'''Semjase:'''
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|- style="vertical-align:top;"
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| 273. Sure, except that the event - with the building of the ark, which Noah himself did not build, and with his family and with the animals and everything else - became so falsified that no current information agrees with the truth any more.
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| 273. Sicher, nur wurde die Begebenheit mit dem Bau der Arche, die Noah nicht selbst erbaut hat, mit seiner Familie und mit den Tieren und allem anderen derart verfälscht, dass keinerlei heutige Angaben mehr mit der Wahrheit übereinstimmen.
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|-
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| 274. The events with the ark did truly take place, but at another time, 90,000 years later.
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| 274. Wahrheitlich fand das Geschehen mit der Arche aber zu einer anderen Zeit statt, 90000 Jahre später.
 +
|-
 +
| <br>'''Billy:'''
 +
| <br>'''Billy:'''
 +
|- style="vertical-align:top;"
 +
| I know that very well, and in these falsified assertions, the boundless stupidity and lack of education of the scribes inevitably comes to full expression, for how else could they have written in their fantasy story that Ararat is the highest mountain in the world, and on the other hand, how, for example, could elephants as well as mammoths, which were still there at that time, rhinoceroses and all other 4-legged animals, etc. have climbed down from Ararat? I happen to know the mountain very well and know that even a good mountain climber has lots of distress and trouble when wanting to conquer the mountain.
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| Das ist mir bestens bekannt, und in diesen verfälschten Behauptungen kommt ja auch die grenzenlose Dummheit und Ungebildetheit der Schreiberlinge voll zum Ausdruck, denn wie hätten sie in ihrer Phantasiegeschichte sonst schreiben können, dass der Ararat der höchste Berg der Erde sei, und wie hätten andererseits z.B. Elefanten sowie Mammuts, die es damals ja noch gab, Nashörner und alle andern vierbeinigen Tiere usw. vom Ararat heruntersteigen können. Ich kenne zufälligerweise den Berg ziemlich genau und weiss, dass selbst ein guter Bergsteiger seine liebe Not und Mühe hat, wenn erden Berg bezwingen will.
 +
|-
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| <br>'''Semjase:'''
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| <br>'''Semjase:'''
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|- style="vertical-align:top;"
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| 275. Not all Earth human beings think logically and with a sharp mind.
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| 275. Nicht alle Erdenmenschen denken logisch und mit scharfem Verstand.
 +
|-
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| 276. Many also live in some belief of an unreal religion, which forbids them to reflect upon and investigate such matters.
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| 276. Viele leben auch in irgendeinem Glauben einer irrealen Religion, die ihnen jegliches Nachdenken und Nachforschen nach solchen Belangen verbietet.
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|}
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<br><br>
 +
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===Contact Report 237 ''(Excerpt)''===
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<small>Source: [[Contact Report 237]]<br>Regarding 'UFO Religion' see [[Other Contactees]]</small>
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----
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{| style="text-align:justify;"
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|+
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| {{FOMTS2}}
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|-
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| <br>'''Billy:'''
 +
| <br>'''Billy:'''
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|- style="vertical-align:top;"
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| I just wanted to make sure. You know, a G. G. in America claims that he or someone else knows that he or someone else would have contact with a certain Commander Hatoon of the Pleiades or somewhere else, but also with Jesus Christ, who under the name Santana or under some other such crazy name is supposed to be crazy enough to maintain contact with an upper-mad earthling, to let him loose with half-slavish idiocies on the otherwise already mostly sectarian enslaved earth humanity.
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| Ich wollte nur sichergehen. Weisst du, ein G. G. in Amerika behauptet, dass er oder weiss der Deibel sonst wer mit einem gewissen Commander Hatoon von den Plejaden oder sonst irgendwo Kontakt hätte, so aber auch mit Jesus Christus, der unter dem Namen Santana oder unter sonst so einem irren Namen verrückt genug sein soll, um mit einem oberirren Erdling Kontakt zu pflegen, um diesen mit halbschlauen Idiotien auf die sonst schon grösstenteils sektiererisch versklavte Erdenmenschheit loszu-lassen.
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|}
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<br><br>
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==Indexed terms==
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<br><br>
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{|style="width: 40%; text-align:center; background-color: white; border-style: solid; border-width: 2px"
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| <small>'''[[Contact Report Index|Keyword Index]]:'''</small>
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| style="width: 60%; text-align:center; background-color: white;"|
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[[Index#Bible Index Anchor|<span style="color:blue"><small>'''Bible'''</small></span>]]
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|}
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<br>
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{|style="width: 40%; text-align:center; background-color: white; border-style: solid; border-width: 2px"
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| <small>'''[[Contact Report Index|Keyword Index]]:'''</small>
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| style="width: 60%; text-align:center; background-color: white;"|
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[[Index#Religion Index Anchor|<span style="color:blue"><small>'''Religion'''</small></span>]]
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|}
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<br>
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{|style="width: 40%; text-align:center; background-color: white; border-style: solid; border-width: 2px"
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| <small>'''[[Contact Report Index|Keyword Index]]:'''</small>
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| style="width: 60%; text-align:center; background-color: white;"|
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[[Index#Creation Index Anchor|<span style="color:blue"><small>'''Creation'''</small></span>]]
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|}
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<br>
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{|style="width: 40%; text-align:center; background-color: white; border-style: solid; border-width: 2px"
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| <small>'''[[Contact Report Index|Keyword Index]]:'''</small>
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| style="width: 60%; text-align:center; background-color: white;"|
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[[Index#God Index Anchor|<span style="color:blue"><small>'''God'''</small></span>]]
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|}
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<br><br>
 +
==Spiritual teaching antithesis of religion==
 +
 +
'''[[Spirit teaching contrary to religions, sects and Satanism]]'''
 +
 +
see [[Spirit Teaching]]. Alternatively; For many readers the ‘reason why Earth humans need help’ in the form of a ‘teaching’ is more interesting than the ‘teaching’ itself, FutureofMankind caters for all audiences, see [[Earth#The Situation of Earth]]
 +
 +
 +
'''Q: Why is this so-called ‘Spirit Teaching’ brought to the foreground every so often during discussion?'''<br>
 +
A: It’s their ‘philosophies for life’, and is important to them for various reasons, FutureofMankind caters for all audiences, see [[Earth#The Situation of Earth]]
 +
 +
'''Q: [[Christian Frehner]] said in a [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9P3z1n0FbI documentary (Youtube)] that there should be no partitions within the community?'''<br>
 +
A: Opinions have always varied through out all history, FutureofMankind caters for all audiences, readers don’t have to read the so-called ‘[[Spirit Teaching]]’ if that’s not what interests them, see [[Earth#The Situation of Earth]], [[Other Contactees]], [[Extraterrestrial Life]], maybe [[Extraterrestrial Traditions]] or make your own way.
 +
 +
<br><br>
 +
 +
==Religion and Relegeon==
 +
 +
'''[[FIGU#WHAT_IS_RELIGION.3F_WHAT_IS_RELEGEON.3F|What is Religion and What is Relegeon?]]'''
 +
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<br><br>
 
==Further Reading==
 
==Further Reading==
−
 
+
<div style="column-count:2;-moz-column-count:2;-webkit-column-count:2">
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<div id="mf-mainsections" title="secondNavigation List"><small>
 
* [[Interview_with_Billy_(1988)#6th_Question|Interview with Billy (1988)]] - 6th Question
 
* [[Interview_with_Billy_(1988)#6th_Question|Interview with Billy (1988)]] - 6th Question
 
* [[God]]
 
* [[God]]
 
* [[Prophets]]
 
* [[Prophets]]
 +
* http://theyfly.com/Meier_on_the_Truth_about_Mohammed.html
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* http://au.figu.org/like_glove.html
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* [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47999795 BBC: Theresa May prepared to receive the dose (External)]
 +
</small>
 +
</div>
 +
</div>
 +
{{LINKNAVS2|[[File:Jim_Nichols_032_1280.jpg|frameless|Art by Jim Nichols|110px]]<br><br>[[File:Jim_Nichols_018_1280.jpg|frameless|Art by Jim Nichols|110px]]}}
  
 
==References==
 
==References==
−
 
+
<references />
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* [[Contact Report 1]], lines 57 and 45 respectively.
 

Edição atual desde as 14h39min de 16 de novembro de 2020

IMPORTANT NOTE
This article is not an official FIGU publication.


“Truly, it is not right to forbid opinion holders and religious believers, or believers in god, places in which they, individually or in groups can retreat or get together for the purpose of exchanging opinions, or for the religious reflection, because that does not correspond to freedom of opinion and freedom of belief. A different way of reflecting, striving and acting, which is directed against such places and their emblems, represents sheer sectarian and fanatical racism against religion and belief, as well as hatred of those who believe differently, and that is absolutely unacceptable in every form…”

‘Billy’ Eduard Albert Meier
 23rd January – 7th June 2009

Source: au.figu.org/god_delusion.html, see God-delusion and God-delusion Insanity - “not right to forbid” -not right to participate


What are five important aspects regarding Earth religions?

Source: Contact Report 031

  1. Religion is only a primitive machination by Man to command, suppress and exploit others, to which only life forms that are weak in their consciousness succumb.
  2. When Man indulges in his religions, i.e. malevolent, erroneous doctrines, his consciousness wastes away more and more and ultimately leads to a bottomless abyss.[1]
  3. Earth is the only planet within the Milky Way galaxy that has religions of our form. Our religions control people’s lives and the welfare of the whole planet retarding our world by thousands of years in spiritual development.[2]
  4. Every aspect of spiritual evolution is blocked by these religions, making any genuine progress impossible.[3]
  5. Our religions still contain some real worth, but this becomes so overshadowed that only a few people are able to see any effective truth in them.[4]


(FOM Note: In United Kingdom (and other countries) it's a criminal offence were someone to attack you physically or verbally because of your religion or belief, or for that matter because of your lack of religion e.g. Atheism. Someone is also committing a criminal offence if they 'stir up' hatred of a particular religious group. This doesn't mean you can't still talk about it honestly and openly, just keep the talk amongst the right company, know when to close your mouth, don't let the conversation spill over into the street, sort of thing. See references to Silent revolution of truth and Quiet revolution of truth)

FIGU Forum, Questions Answered by Billy

Source: forum.figu.org: Your Questions to Billy Meier - Answered (External)

Why have we not yet destroyed ourselves like other star systems have done so because of religion?

From the FIGU Forum (Questions Answered by Billy):

Cambridge Dictionary; British English: Religiosity
the quality of being very or too religious.
reminding of religious behaviour, often in a way that is annoying.
religiose rhymes with morose.

Semjase said that the damage from the Christian religion had spread to other systems and galaxies and even caused their destruction. How is this possible when, as crazy as things are here, we haven't yet destroyed our own world over this, at least not to the extent she describes?


ANSWER: Hi Michael,

The other ones had more sophisticated weapons and technology to destroy themselves. We are still bound to our planet (luckily, in this respect). We are still in our baby shoes compared to them (in technical aspects).[5]



Religion in the Contact Reports

Source: Contact Reports

Contact Report 253 (Excerpt)

Source: Contact Report 253

British English Schweizer Standarddeutsch FIGU.png

Florena:
Florena:
41. Our investigations of the last two weeks however has clearly resulted in the fact that the alleged representative of God, believes neither in the existence of a God above himself, nor in the religious insanity that he preaches. 41. Unsere Abklärungen der letzten zwei Wochen haben aber ganz eindeutig ergeben, dass der angebliche Gottesstellvertreter weder an die Existenz eines Gottes über ihm selbst glaubt noch an all den religiösen Unsinn, den er predigt.
42. This man believes only in himself, as did also many of the previous Popes, as we likewise endeavoured to clear up for ourselves through travels into the past to the places of the respective events. 42. Dieser Mann glaubt nur an sich selbst, wie das auch viele der früheren Päpste taten, wie wir uns bemühten ebenfalls abzuklären durch Reisen in die Vergangenheit an die Orte des jeweiligen Geschehens.
43. It proved to be about them, that a certain small number of only precisely 36 Popes believed in a God above them, whereas all others only considered it for its post and position of power for themselves. 43. Es erwies sich dabei, dass eine gewisse kleinere Anzahl von nur gerade 36 Päpsten an einen Gott über ihnen glaubten, während alle andern nur auf sich selbst, auf ihr Amt und auf ihre Machtposition bedacht waren.
44. Quite a few among them in fact completely rejected the Christian faith, which they outwardly, of course, knew to conceal. 44. Etliche unter ihnen lehnten den christlichen Glauben sogar vollkommen ab, was sie nach aussen hin natürlich zu verheimlichen wussten.

Billy:
Billy:
Aha, then therefore I was correct with my suspicion. Aha, dann hatte ich mit meiner Vermutung also recht.



(FOM Note: Also see God-delusion and God-delusion Insanity, whereby the genuine delusion symptoms are much less prevalent than some have traditionally thought, at least among the Popes themselves, with just 13.64% of all the Popes over 1,965 years suffering from actual delusion)

Contact Report 39 (Excerpt)

Source: Contact Report 039

British English Schweizer Standarddeutsch FIGU.png

Semjase:
Semjase:
273. Sure, except that the event - with the building of the ark, which Noah himself did not build, and with his family and with the animals and everything else - became so falsified that no current information agrees with the truth any more. 273. Sicher, nur wurde die Begebenheit mit dem Bau der Arche, die Noah nicht selbst erbaut hat, mit seiner Familie und mit den Tieren und allem anderen derart verfälscht, dass keinerlei heutige Angaben mehr mit der Wahrheit übereinstimmen.
274. The events with the ark did truly take place, but at another time, 90,000 years later. 274. Wahrheitlich fand das Geschehen mit der Arche aber zu einer anderen Zeit statt, 90000 Jahre später.

Billy:
Billy:
I know that very well, and in these falsified assertions, the boundless stupidity and lack of education of the scribes inevitably comes to full expression, for how else could they have written in their fantasy story that Ararat is the highest mountain in the world, and on the other hand, how, for example, could elephants as well as mammoths, which were still there at that time, rhinoceroses and all other 4-legged animals, etc. have climbed down from Ararat? I happen to know the mountain very well and know that even a good mountain climber has lots of distress and trouble when wanting to conquer the mountain. Das ist mir bestens bekannt, und in diesen verfälschten Behauptungen kommt ja auch die grenzenlose Dummheit und Ungebildetheit der Schreiberlinge voll zum Ausdruck, denn wie hätten sie in ihrer Phantasiegeschichte sonst schreiben können, dass der Ararat der höchste Berg der Erde sei, und wie hätten andererseits z.B. Elefanten sowie Mammuts, die es damals ja noch gab, Nashörner und alle andern vierbeinigen Tiere usw. vom Ararat heruntersteigen können. Ich kenne zufälligerweise den Berg ziemlich genau und weiss, dass selbst ein guter Bergsteiger seine liebe Not und Mühe hat, wenn erden Berg bezwingen will.

Semjase:
Semjase:
275. Not all Earth human beings think logically and with a sharp mind. 275. Nicht alle Erdenmenschen denken logisch und mit scharfem Verstand.
276. Many also live in some belief of an unreal religion, which forbids them to reflect upon and investigate such matters. 276. Viele leben auch in irgendeinem Glauben einer irrealen Religion, die ihnen jegliches Nachdenken und Nachforschen nach solchen Belangen verbietet.



Contact Report 237 (Excerpt)

Source: Contact Report 237
Regarding 'UFO Religion' see Other Contactees

British English Schweizer Standarddeutsch FIGU.png

Billy:
Billy:
I just wanted to make sure. You know, a G. G. in America claims that he or someone else knows that he or someone else would have contact with a certain Commander Hatoon of the Pleiades or somewhere else, but also with Jesus Christ, who under the name Santana or under some other such crazy name is supposed to be crazy enough to maintain contact with an upper-mad earthling, to let him loose with half-slavish idiocies on the otherwise already mostly sectarian enslaved earth humanity. Ich wollte nur sichergehen. Weisst du, ein G. G. in Amerika behauptet, dass er oder weiss der Deibel sonst wer mit einem gewissen Commander Hatoon von den Plejaden oder sonst irgendwo Kontakt hätte, so aber auch mit Jesus Christus, der unter dem Namen Santana oder unter sonst so einem irren Namen verrückt genug sein soll, um mit einem oberirren Erdling Kontakt zu pflegen, um diesen mit halbschlauen Idiotien auf die sonst schon grösstenteils sektiererisch versklavte Erdenmenschheit loszu-lassen.



Indexed terms



Keyword Index:

Bible


Keyword Index:

Religion


Keyword Index:

Creation


Keyword Index:

God



Spiritual teaching antithesis of religion

Spirit teaching contrary to religions, sects and Satanism

see Spirit Teaching. Alternatively; For many readers the ‘reason why Earth humans need help’ in the form of a ‘teaching’ is more interesting than the ‘teaching’ itself, FutureofMankind caters for all audiences, see Earth#The Situation of Earth


Q: Why is this so-called ‘Spirit Teaching’ brought to the foreground every so often during discussion?
A: It’s their ‘philosophies for life’, and is important to them for various reasons, FutureofMankind caters for all audiences, see Earth#The Situation of Earth

Q: Christian Frehner said in a documentary (Youtube) that there should be no partitions within the community?
A: Opinions have always varied through out all history, FutureofMankind caters for all audiences, readers don’t have to read the so-called ‘Spirit Teaching’ if that’s not what interests them, see Earth#The Situation of Earth, Other Contactees, Extraterrestrial Life, maybe Extraterrestrial Traditions or make your own way.



Religion and Relegeon

What is Religion and What is Relegeon?



Further Reading

Links and navigationFuture FIGU.pngf Mankind
  • Art by Jim Nichols

    Art by Jim Nichols
Contact Report Index Meier Encyclopaedia
n A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z 0-9 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z

References

  1. ↑ Contact Report 1, lines 57 and 45 respectively.
  2. ↑ Contact Report 31
  3. ↑ Contact Report 31
  4. ↑ Contact Report 31
  5. ↑ http://forum.figu.org/cgi-bin/us/discus.cgi?pg=next&topic=12&page=2685
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